These would be good reasons, if they were true. Each of the reasons is
false.

1) The evidence that vaccines prevent diseases is overwhelming. Each vaccine
has been shown to be effective. And in some areas where the rates of
vaccination has decreased, there are new outbreaks of these diseases.

The whale site claims that smallpox is a disease of poverty and sanitation.
Well, if that were the case, smallpox would be present in poor areas of US
cities. This is not the case. And if the author (who is apparently too
ashamed (with good reason) to share his name with us) meant poor sanitation,
the author would be able to find small pox in many areas of South American,
Eastern Europe, Asia and Africa.

The author claims that when one disease is suppressed, another one
increases. This is utter bull.

2) He states that disease dangers have been overstated. I disagree. A dead
child is a dead child. I prefer we had fewer of those.

3) The government or anyone else never claimed the vaccines are 100% safe.
Nothing is. However, the vaccines are far safer than he diseases they
prevent.

4 & 5) The government conspiracy theory. Bullshit. The people on the CDC who
recommend vaccine schedules are experts. Every vaccine has been shown to
work before it is approved.

6) The vaccine ingredients in the quantities used are safe.

7) Prior contaminants are irrelevant to the vaccines of today. The vaccines
are safe and effective.

8) Medical politics? Bullshit. Vaccines are recommended by real medical
doctors. Most alternative “medicines” have not been shown to be safe or
effective.

9) Some kids who are vaccinated still get the disease. However, the disease
is usually very mild and rarely fatal. For example, kids who get the chicken
pox vaccine often get a mild case consisting of just a few skin lesions.

10) The Pasteur model has been supported by thousands of studies. However,
the whale site even gets the Pasteur model wrong. Points 2, 3, 4, 5, 7 and 8
are not part of the Pasteur model. I guess the whale site author does not
understand science or medicine.

11) There is no compelling reasons to do long-term research. The antigens
that kids and adults are exposed to are the same ones that they would be
exposed to if they got the diseases. There is little evidence that kids are
better off be sick for a weak and lots that kids are better off not dying
from vaccine-preventable diseases. The “evidence” that unvaccinated kids are
healthier is anecdotal and unreliable.

12) The problem with this figure is that the diseases supposedly caused by
vaccines are not caused by vaccines. In fact, vaccines prevent otitis media
(middle ear infections).

13) Trust. Yeah, I would not want to trust my child to a potentially deadly
illness when I could prevent it with a vaccine.

14) This assumes that vaccines cause particular conditions when they have
not been shown to.

15) Most of the quotes here are older than me, and I have white hair.

16) Vaccination is not a sacrament. It is a scientifically proven method to
prevent deadly diseases.

So the whale to site is completely wrong. As usually.

Miriam Webster Dictionary
defines “disease” as: a condition of the living animal or plant body or of one
of its parts that impairs normal functioning :
Cheryl wrote:
We could apply that definition to everyone alive,(regardless of how many
chromosomes they have) as aging causes our cells to degenerate, mutate, and
slow down or lose their normal functioning on a daily basis.

Actually the natural process of aging is viewed to be normal and hence
would not come under the definition of disease. Pre-mature aging,
however, is not considered normal.

The natural aging process of organic species is thought to be contributed
to by many factors. Within the human/animal model aging is thought to be
influenced by the stress that oxidation brings upon the cell. A cell
gets its energy needed to function properly from a process whereby
nutrients react with oxygen within the mitochondria of the cell. The
byproducts of this reaction include molecules that have a free electron,
also sometimes referred to as a free radical. Based on observations of
the activity of free electron molecules outside of the human/animal model
it can be hypothesized that these free radicals within the cell are
responsible for damage to the cell. Some believe that these free
radicals can be mopped up by anti-oxidants. Some also believe that this
process is accelerated in individuals with down syndrome due to the
overexpression of certain products within each cell as caused by the
additional 21st chromosome.

In my opinion, the tendency of some parents and professionals to classify
down syndrome as a disease is first because the cause of down syndrome
fits the definition and second, because often times maladies that are
defined as disease receive a greater scrutiny and a greater emphasis on
treatment. Often times, disorders that are termed to be syndromes are
thought of as being “fixed” and therefore untreatable.

The detriment to referring to down syndrome as a disease is that often
times, the word disease has a negative connotation, even though the
definition does not support this. As we all know, many people who do not
understand down syndrome are often fearful of it for whatever real or
imagined reason.

From a clinical standpoint, I would classify down syndrome as a disease
because the definition is met. I do not consider those that have down
syndrome to be necessarily sickly or contagious, just as I do not
consider someone with heart disease or myopia to be necessarily sickly or
contagious.

Although DS is not a disease in the sense that it could be caught or
developed after birth, however it is a congenital disease whereby the brain
and body undergoes a progressive decline as the genetic overexpression of
C21 poisons the system with super-oxide-dismutase. This produces hydrogen
peroxide in excess of that which the body can naturally assimilate.

Yes, that is indeed a theory about DS. If that was truly the case,
then why are so many children with DS born with hypotonia? Shouldn’t
the hypotonia develop as the genetic overexpression of C21 poisons
them?

The hypotonia associated with the newborn infant with DS appears to be
cerebral in nature rather than arising from the muscles themselves. So the
hypotonia is a result of the brain’s abnormal wiring, so to speak.

Again, by tradition, genetic disorders are not referred to as congenital
diseases. An example of a congential disease is toxoplasmosis or
cytomegalovirus.

Savely says there does seem to be a significant link between Morgellons and
chronic lyme disease

A new, mysterious illness, sounds like it comes straight out of The Twilight
Zone. It’s a rare, skin disorder called Morgellons.

You may be surprised to learn that Texas is second only to California in the
number of documented cases of Morgellons.

“It’s scary. You’re like are these bugs in my skin?” Morgellons patient
Cindy Casey said.

If it’s sounds like something out of a science fiction novel, you’re right.

“It’s very, very odd what’s happening to these people. They have little blue
fibers, and black specks and white threads coming out of their skins,”
Morgellons & Lyme Disease Expert Ginger Savely said.

But that’s literally just the tip of what’s bugging these people. Under the
skin, those fibers are connected to what appears to be a cluster of fibers
or in some instances, parasitic looking organisms. Oh, and did we mention
they don’t stay still?

“It’s movement. It’s actually moving, it’s almost like they’re intertwined
with your muscle tissue,” Morgellons patient Eric Roberson said.

Health experts don’t even know what causes the skin condition.

“We don’t know what it is. We don’t have any idea if this is a fungal thing
or if it’s a parasite. Nobody knows,” Savely said.

Savely says there does seem to be a significant link between Morgellons and
chronic lyme disease.

“It’s weird to be so happy about having a chronic disease, but we’re just
happy to have an answer,” Casey said.

Cindy Casey is so happy. She travels all the way from San Francisco to
Savely’s South Austin office. Carol Arledge from San Angelo, Eric Roberson
is from Austin were told they were crazy and in need of psychiatric help.

“I knew I wasn’t going crazy because obviously you can see it,” Arledge
said.

Using a $70 microscope, Cindy’s Husband Charles is able to quite literally
focus on his wife’s ailment.

“When you pay close attention and you see things coming of these people’s
skin, you know that this isn’t delusion, that this is real,” Savely said.

Health experts tell KXAN that while Morgellons patients are not cured, their
skin conditions almost always improve once they begin receiving treatment
for lyme disease.

What is being done about this unknown skin disease?
Fifteen physicians in the U.S. are currently treating patients with this
baffling skin disease. These physicians are trying decide the best medical
management of their patients, while scientists identify the skin pathogen
related to the Borreliosis.

Over one hundred people with this skin disease have tested positive for
Borrelia burgdorferi (Bb), the bacteria which causes Lyme Disease. The
working hypothesis of this foundation is that an infection with Borrelia
burgdorferi (Bb) may alter the individual’s immune system and allow this
unknown organism to become an opportunistic coinfection.

A working hypothesis is subject to change as research continues and facts
emerge. Objective scientists form new hypotheses when old ones are no
longer supported by current research findings.

Physicians and scientists are beginning to investigate the lesions of people
with this disease. The fibers from the lesions are being studied to
determine their origin.

This foundation has received no funding and has done this research based on
the kindness of scientists, laboratories, physicians, and individuals
concerned about this public health fiasco.

The more difficult question for HIV-causes-AIDS advocates is why there exists
patients with full blown AIDS in the absence of HIV—that is, there
exists patients who are diagnosed with one of the AIDS defining diseases
together with a depressed immune system. Apparently apart from the lack
of the presence of AIDS antibodies such patients are indistinquishable
from those with AIDS antibodies. HIV-causes-AIDS advocates define such
problems away by labeling such patients as “idiopathic
CD4-lymphocytopenia.” A deceptive label meaning “AIDS without HIV.”

ICL is _NOT_ AIDS.

There are several differences. The main similarity is a low CD4
count. However:

The CD4 count is rarely as low as seen in AIDS cases (below 200 per ul)

The CD4/CD8 ratio is rarely, if ever, reversed. It is however
characteristic of the immunosuppression seen in HIV+ people.

CD8 counts are not relevant.

Look at “The Official U.S. Government Definition Of AIDS (1993)”:
http://www.aegis.com/topics/definition.html

CATEGORY 1 (Asymptomatic HIV Disease)

You are in Category 1 only if you are asymptomatic (no symptoms)
and have never had less then 500 CD4 cells.”

So we have the proof that ICL patients would be considered at least
AIDS-cases of category 2 (i.e. AIDS related complex) if they were
HIV positive.

CATEGORY 2 (ARC)

You are in Category 2 if —

1. your T-cells have dropped below 500 but never below 200;

— or —

2. you have never had any Category 3 diseases (see below) but
have had at least one of the following defining illnesses —
…

CD4 counts between 500 and 1500 are quite normal. The figure “CD4
lymphocyte counts” of the Sabin et al study shows big changes in
the CD4 cell counts of the same persons over time, e.g. from
around 500 to over 1500 cells per microliter in a HIV negative
person: http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/312/7025/207/F02

Temporary changes in CD4 counts resulting from different causes
are well-known. So the more frequently your CD4 cells are counted,
the more likely is a value below 500.

Your disease classification — asymptomatic, ARC, or AIDS —
is based on the lowest t-cell test you ever had.

For example, if you are HIV positive and a concatenation of
unfavourable events leads to a measured CD4 value of 190, then
you remain an AIDS PATIENT (category 1) for the rest of your life,
even after all immunosuppressive causes, which taken together were
responsible for the low CD4 count, have disappeared.

It must also be noted that ***EITHER*** an AIDS defining illness
***OR*** a CD4 count below 200 is enough for AIDS to be diagnosed.
So the claim that all AIDS patients have very low CD4 counts is
simply wrong.

People with ICL do NOT present with AIDS-defining conditions. They seem
to have functional immune systems, just low CD4 counts. This is reflected
in the name of the disease, which literally translates as “low CD4 T cell
counts in the blood due to an unknown cause”, with no mention of a
resulting effect on immunity.

“Just low CD4 counts” and “functional immune system”? But why then
are HIV positive people terrorised with their CD4 figures? Isn’t it
rather absurd to assume that the functionality of a system as
complex as the immune system can be reduced to one single figure,
the CD4 count?

If I remember correctly, even immune systems without CD4 cells can
work sufficiently well.

Some may present with mild signs of
impaired immunity, but I challenge anyone to find a case of ICL presenting
with PCP, which typically occurs with T cell counts well below 100 and
was the presenting complaint in about half of the early AIDS cases.

“Since bacterial opportunists of immune deficiency, like
tuberculosis bacillus or pneumococcus, are readily defeated with
antibiotics, fungal and viral pneumonias predominate in countries
where antibiotics are readily available. This is particularly
true for risk groups that use antibiotics chronically as AIDS
prophylaxis (Callen, 1990; Bardach, 1992).

Indeed, young rats treated for several weeks simultaneously with
antibiotics and immunosuppressive cortisone all developed
Pneumocystis pneumonia spontaneously (Weller, 1955).”
http://www.duesberg.com/ch6.html

T cell counts “well below 100” are not at all typical of HIV
positivity. An extract from “Fauci presents new data on structured
intermittent therapy at XIIIth World AIDS Conference in Durban,
South Africa”:

“Among five patients receiving HAART on a seven-day-on, seven-
day-off schedule, small blips of rebounding virus were observed
when patients came off therapy, but only infrequently and at
levels that have not exceeded several hundred copies. In this
study, patients’ lowest lifetime CD4+ T-cell counts ranged from
262 to 510 cells/mm3 (mean, 350); at study entry, the patients
had CD4+ T-cell counts that ranged from 428 to 1331 (mean, 940).”
http://www.eurekalert.org/releases/nnia-fpn071000.html

The differences between AIDS and ICL have been made clear several times
in the literature, and to say otherwise is either due to ignorance of
the facts or a desire to spread misinformation.

Even if this were true, it would not change the fact that normal ICL
is diagnosed as AIDS related complex and severe ICL even as AIDS in
the presence of HIV antibodies.

AIDS is far more than simply having disease X in the presence of anti-HIV
antibodies. That definition may exist for surveillance, but you must
acknowledge the vast amount of knowledge linking such a diagnostic basis
with the immunological deficit seen in AIDS.

The only reason that “AIDS is far more than simply having disease X
in the presence of anti-HIV antibodies” is a quasi-theological belief
system leading to the vicious AIDS circle.

I have often wondered if I have lyme disease and that is what causes my
symptoms atleast in part. I have had couple lyme test that were
negitive, so I have not really know where else to look for it or what
else to do.

I think I read somewher that if they tap right into your joint fluid
and pull out a sample that there is a better chance of the lyme disease
showing up, espically if it has moved to your joints.

Accourding to mayo clinic:

“Lyme disease can be difficult to diagnose. Its variable symptoms mimic
other conditions, including viral infection, various joint disorders,
muscle pain (fibromyalgia) and chronic fatigue syndrome. What’s more,
the ticks that transmit Lyme disease can spread other, similar diseases
at the same time.”

“If you don’t have the characteristic Lyme disease rash, your doctor
will take a detailed medical history and perform a physical
examination. Laboratory tests to identify antibodies to the bacteria
also are likely to be used to help confirm the diagnosis. These tests
are most reliable a few weeks after an infection because it takes your
body some time to develop antibodies. Even then, however, the tests
aren’t entirely foolproof.

They include:

Enzyme-linked immunosorbent assay (ELISA) test. The test used most
often to check for Lyme disease, ELISA detects antibodies to B.
burgdorferi. But because it can sometimes provide false-positive
results, it’s not used as the sole basis for diagnosis.

Western blot test. If the ELISA test is positive, another test, the
Western blot, is usually performed to confirm the diagnosis. The
Western blot detects antibodies to several proteins of B. burgdorferi.

Polymerase chain reaction (PCR). This test is used for people who may
have chronic Lyme arthritis. The test helps detect bacterial DNA in
fluid drawn from an infected joint. The test may also be used to detect
persistent infection in the cerebrospinal fluid of patients with
nervous system symptoms.”

The late stage complications accourding to mayo clinic include:

Chronic joint inflammation (Lyme arthritis), particularly of your knee
Neurological symptoms, such as facial palsy and neuropathy
Cognitive defects, such as impaired memory
Sometimes, heart rhythm irregularities
Memory loss
Difficulty concentrating
Changes in mood or sleep habits

Overall the signs and symptoms, accourding again to mayo are:

Flu-like symptoms. A fever, chills, fatigue, body aches and a headache
may accompany the rash.

Flu-like symptoms. A fever, chills, fatigue, body aches and a headache
may accompany the rash.
Migratory joint pain. If the infection remains untreated, you may
develop bouts of severe joint pain and swelling several weeks to months
after you’re infected. Your knees are especially likely to be affected,
but the pain can shift from one joint to another.
Neurological problems. In some cases, inflammation of the membranes
surrounding your brain (meningitis), temporary paralysis of one side of
your face (Bell’s palsy), numbness or weakness in your limbs, and poor
muscle movement may occur weeks, months or even years after an
untreated infection. Memory loss, difficulty concentrating, and changes
in mood or sleep habits also can be symptoms of late-stage Lyme
disease.

Less common signs and symptoms. Some people may experience heart
problems, such as an irregular heartbeat, several weeks after
infection, but this rarely lasts more than a few days or weeks. Other
less common manifestations of the disease include eye inflammation,
hepatitis and severe fatigue.

Skin problems. In Europe, people with advanced Lyme disease may develop
skin nodules and patches of thinning skin on their hands, elbows or
knees.

I dont know about you wenz, but I really seem to fit this picture, I
have even had severe joint invlovent, that at times lets up, then get
to the point where it is debilitating.

I will deffinatly share any information that I discover with you, and
if you find out anything, please let me know and or post here on the
board.

Do anyone have any comments / thoughts on this they can share?

Have you investigated this website: http://www.aldf.com/
American Lyme Disease Foundation, Inc.

It does a great job of explaining Lyme Disease.

In my understanding the only way you can get Lyme Disease is through
deer ticks.

Basically, the test for lyme disease is wrong a certin percentage of
the time, espically in later stages of the disease. I live in a area
with a lot of deer ticks that are well known for caring lyme disease.
I belive I was bit by one a number of years ago and I had a bad
reaction and a rash from it.

When I read about lyme disease, I find that many people talk about the
symptoms being very simular to that of fms. But there seems to be no
agreeded upon aproch to treatment if you can not get a definitive
answer from the tests.

If I have lyme disease, instead of fms or in addition to fms, I would
like to properly treat it. I just don’t know how I can know if I have
it if the tests are not accurate.

And what would you have done with those prisoners who have TB?

Keeping pregnant women with deadly contagious diseases constantly
present within the housing quarters which are often at double
capacity is tantamount to torture or even murder in many respects.

It is barbaric and ruthlessly cruel. Inhaling the tubercle bacillus
into the lungs would have dire consequences for the unborn who might
never be born.

Torturing, crippling and killing people is wrong. Pregnant women and
Mycobacterium tuberculosis do not mix. It is a contagious disease.
Why didn’t you just admit that it was barbaric? The sick people belong
in clinics. The unborn need protected. Other people need to be
protected.

Just for once Greggy, how about answering the question instead of
wandering off in some tirade.

Again Greggy, just what would you have done with those prisoners who
have TB?

Clinic, hospital et al of course, it is a very contagious and
potentially lethal disease, if one puts them with pregnant inmates then
one is killing and torturing pregnant inmates.

Why kill babies? One does not have to be that civilised surely to want
to avoid killing helpless women and helpless babies. Couldn’t you work
that out for yourself?

Yakama are you as retarded as you pretend? This is all an elaborate
spoof isn’t it?

I hope so because I’d hate to be an inmate in your prison if it ain’t.
The fucking bill of rights might as well be toilet paper given the way
you go on. I suspect you might even be serious, it is difficult to know.

HANOI, Vietnam (March 15) – The World Health Organization warned a mysterious
form of pneumonia was becoming a “worldwide health threat” Saturday, as a
case of the illness was detected in Europe for the first time.

Doctors claim that they know what the virus is that’s that’s got the
WHO issuing its warnings.

They say it is a paramyxovirus, para meaning in medical terminology
similar to, so a paramyxovirus is defined in Taber’s Cyclopedic
Medical Dictionary as a virus quite similar in physical, chemical, and
biological aspects, but different in pathology from a myxovirus.

FYI, paramyxoviruses cause parainfluenza, measles, mumps, Newcastle
disease, and respiratory syncytial viruses (a virus that induces
formation of syncytial masses in infected cell cultures. It is a
major cause of acute respiratory disease in children). I believe a
synctium in this definition means a group of cells in which the
protoplasm of one cells is continuous with that of adjoining cells,
e.g. clumps of diseased cells are found together.

In other words, I don’t think they’ve made MUCH progress. I already
knew it was acting like influenza because of its presentation. It is
acting like the really nasty 1918 influenza which quickly caused
pneumonia in its patients and a high incidence of death, like this
disease is causing. It’s quite possible that what they thought was
influenza in 1918, when modern medicine was still quite young, was
actually parainfluenza caused by a paramyxovirus rather than a
myxovirus causing the common cold/influenza, because the presentation
is quite similar to what was described back then, people going along
just fine and suddenly coming down with serious symptoms of this
disease within a matter of hours.

Interesting to me is that Newcastle disease is mentioned as being a
part of this group of pathogens. If I recall correctly, there has
been a nasty outbreak of Newcastle disease in chickens in California
and it also has spread to Arizona, possibly endangering our egg supply
here in AZ, as most eggs are laid locally, while the chicken we eat
mostly comes from the deep south.

I have to wonder if, since Newcastle is so prevalent in chickens if it
has not made the leap from chicken to man. It is known to have come
from Hong Kong and be present in Vietnam as well.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&cid=564&ncid=564&e=7&u=/…

http://www.lapublichealth.org/vet/newcastle.htm

Fortunately, since they seem to have narrowed it down to a virus, they
are using some of the newer antiviral treatments that are out there
along with steroids to try and help patients recover, so it is
possible they will at least keep the outbreak from spreading now that
they’ve clamped down on those dirty docs and nurses who weren’t
following proper procedure in handling those with a particularly
virulent disease.

Personally, have a bad feeling about SARS, and feel that we might
hear a lot more about it in coming weeks.

Most flu doesn’t develop into pneumonia, let alone an untreatable
pneumonia, as quickly as this one seems to be doing.

I re-read the information I had to study in school regarding the 1918
pandemic, and this “pneumonia” that they first called influenza, is
acting a lot like that particular flu strain that wiped out so many
people about 100 years ago.

The estimate is that more than 1/2 of the world’s population was
completely incapacitated by the 1918 flu strain, and more than 1%
died. Since they don’t have firm counts, they can only say 1%, but it
looks like since the low estimate is 20 million out of almost 2
billion population, but could be up to 40 million of those 2 billion,
the percentage of deaths could be higher.

The problem with the 1918 flu was that it most strongly struck the
population group that is generally best able to withstand this type of
infection without showing too many symptoms, the 20-40 age group.

So far, it sounds like the people who have contracted this latest
strain of whatever they don’t want to call it, wavering between
another killer flu and just an atypical pneumonia, are in that very
group that was affected about 100 years ago.

As it is, the CDC is only now saying that 3 weeks after the initial
reports are coming out they are warning travelers.

In 1918, the killer flu spread around the world and ran the worst of
its course in about 8 weeks, though it was around for pretty much the
entire year, but any affected area would show signs rather quickly and
run its course, while the pandemic moved on.

So I’d say that since Hong Kong is the latest area stricken, and we
get more information from them than from China, we should watch what
happens there, and also what happens in NY, where that plane went
through.

I think to stave off panic, they are saying now that the doctor who
was quarantined has one of the typical pneumonias, but I would take
that with a grain of salt.

Now, most of you know that I work in the medical field, and that I’m
very down on many people who work in it because they aren’t
maintaining cleanliness standards when moving from patient to patient
and ward to ward, and even worse aren’t washing their hands after they
use the toilet, which spreads staph in the hospitals.

Well, the CDC is saying that the latest group of people really taken
out with this stuff is the health care people. If they had maintained
proper sanitation, then it would be less likely to spread, but who
knows how many people they contaminated with their terrible personal
habits.

I am going to be quite cautious going out in public for the next 2
months, and watching things very closely. If there is an outbreak in
my area, I’m quarantining my family, and they are fully aggreeable to
this course of action. It’s been nearly 100 years since we had an
epidemic, and the CDC is admitting we could have a pandemic on our
hands. Thing is, we have made and overused antibiotics since the last
pandemic, so while some antibiotics may help with secondary bacterial
infections, it sounds like this disease is impervious to most
antibiotics and the very few antivirals we have out there.

The best thing to do is be cautious, and if you show symptoms of the
disease, sudden high fever, difficulty breathing, etc., get to a
doctor or hospital as quick as you can because while we may have some
sloppy people here, I’m sure our conditions are better than what they
have in places like China and Hong Kong.

It appears that nanobacteria and mycoplasmas may infect an individual in an
ongoing fashion for decades without actually directly threatening the life
of the individual. The progress of such infections appears to be aligned
with the progress of chronic diseases in general. It is, IMHO, logical to
attempt to correlate such infections with these diseases and look for
possible causal effect. This has been done for a number of chronic diseases.

I have been unable to find anything significant WRT research which makes any
serious attempt to link psoriasis and these chronic infections. I have found
a number of inferences, but no research.

Is anyone aware of any such research.

Did you read the crohns thread? And notice where
the study was done? Baylor. And where the p study
that started on DNA began? Baylor. Now if we could
get them to-gether some how. The learning curve for
all practical time purposes (not ours of course-as yesterday
is to late) is straight up and not published fast enough.
Peer review etc.

The NPF are the ones to ask as that DNA study is in house, now.
Go to www.npf.org (?) and get their 800#. Talk to as high
as you can get on the phone call. The higher you go, the more
they know. Hope full ly.

NOw, what if we (P) are a basket of maladies and a nanobac
infection is some how implicated. Heck, it could be
from conjunctivitis. Candida has 70+ endotoxins.
Strep, vaccines, etc etc etc

Now go back and read the post the other day on the
dairy council and scientific testing.

See what i mean. Testing for a few factors is hard
enough. How does one control for a myriad of
factors. (Well with out me, even with me.. it would
be hard if not impossibe)

Think of it this way. I speak or googlelate on the p ng.
You get it. (I dream on.)

YOU or some of youse p guys then:

Slurp some FSO. Or stop eating some flour. Or move
your vit. c far from the consumption of meat (high iron)
and quit your glass of wine before or with dinner (more
iron absorbtion). Iron in the intestines upregs P horrors.
Go on a high phyto chemical diet. (hint eat your five fruits+veggies)
And down tone the amount of PORK, EGGS (yolks) and
red meat by 10 to 75% per week, month, year. (hint-lower AA)
High arachidonics (AA) can even be generated from any old
omega 6 fatty acid with a little refined sugar to
click on the delta 5 desaturase to create cox 2’s (bad guys).
And remember omega 3 rich flax oil is
half and half omega 6. Why i limit to one tablespoon.
It may be essentail (EFA) and be half the problem.
While graham over there in england is two plus. (Tbls./day)
Of course he is in a colder clime then i and burns
it faster. (or he could hibernate in a heated house?)

Now, lets get down to nanobac or any bacteria or
pathogen. What if their role in this P condition is
sub-clinical? They or some of *them* bugs share
17% of our DNA. (This must frost the rear ends
of some religous extremists)

We are now enteron-ing the P twilight zone. A Rubics
cube in a pandorian box in a chinese box on a Rube
Goldberg contraption in a enigma… you get my drift.

In other words, we are it. The lucky 2.?% of the pop.
Once the bug is known (if it is a bug or his poop)
they (science folks) should be cruising down hill..
How else are we gonna arrive on a demographiccally
induced answer without talking and relating.
Only then, maybe, will a P-E-epiphany be possible.

And this is all for naught if its some simple
DNA glitch that causes the delta 5 saturase to
flip to fast and some PPAR (gamma, delta, alpha)
to be cytoclined to cascade some kinase to signal
some transduction in the what-it-ma-call-itz to
up or downregulate the th1/th2 imbalence that
throws the C-amp/C-gmp outa whack that makes
to much fibronectin that confuses the auto immune
and the antigens go haywire. Say, did i pull that
outa my rear or what? Time to go apoptosis.

PartII when my brain stops swimming in this swamp.

BACKGROUND: There is a growing interest in nonalcoholic
steatohepatitis (NASH), a disease entity which is quite similar to
alcoholic liver disease. MATERIAL AND METHODS: We present three
patients with nonalcoholic steatohepatitis, and review current opinion
on this disease entity. RESULTS: Non-alcoholic steatohepatitis is very
often associated with the insulin resistance syndrome. There is also
an association with hepatic iron overload. In one of our patients,
biochemical improvement occurred after treatment with phlebotomy.
Insulin resistance, resulting in fat accumulation, seems to be an
important first step in the pathogenesis. Free fatty acids, iron, and
other sources of oxidative stress probably result in cell damage. In
some patients, these events result in necroinflammation mediated by
various cytokines and immunoactive cells. The prognosis in pure
steatosis is usually good. Presence of necroinflammation or fibrosis
indicates a risk of progressive liver disease, including cirrhosis.

Can anyone tell me just what an infectious diseases MD does? I asked
the person who answered the phone and was told that they handle
infection from the sinus on down. What is it that they can do that an
ENT can’t do? I really don’t understand, but several people have
suggested seeing one, so I made an appointment. I’d make an
appointment with a witch dr. if one was available. Any idea what the
procedure will be? Try to make a culture, blood test, what?
If anyone has been to one will you please give me some clues as what
to expect.

If you really are seeing an infectious disease specialist the following
would be true. He/she is a board certified internist, with subspecialtly
training in infectious diseases. This includes all infectious
affectations from your toes to the apex of your skull.
He/she won’t be able to tell you exactly what to do about your
“sinusitis” but will be able to tell if you are infected, not a bad idea
to get to the bottom of your problem.

Much so called sinusitus isn’t necessarily related to being infected,
hence the problem, and the raison d’etre for the dilemma of this NG.
To your ultimate solution,

Only an ENT can do a proper culture of your sinuses, because that
requires an endoscope and an infectious disease specialist doesn’t do
that.

But the culture should be sent to a lab that the infectious disease
specialist recommends. That lab can not only tell what kind of bugs are
growing in your sinuses, but they can test those bugs for sensitivity to
various antibiotics and determine whether the bugs are resistant or not.

The infectious disease specialist can figure out how to treat such
resistant infections as MRSA.

My sinuses have a slight amount of Enterococcus Faecalis growing in
there. That’s of concern to me because Enterococcus Faecalis is
resistant to nearly EVERY oral antibiotic except the penicilins (which I
am allergic to) and to vancomycin (which has some nasty side effects).

In nearly every hospital there is someone who specializes in infectious
diseases. You can call your local hospital and ask for a referral.
Where the difference is between this speicalist and the general internisit is
that the infectious disease guy only does that field, takes courses, etc.
whereaas the internist also is heart, diabetes, etc.
With so many bacteria changing and resistances to antibiotics growing, we need
these people.